Recently Matt Campion, Head of Product at BeeCastle presented on a Webinar with Adam Ross from Cloud Olive. The topic of the webinar was Finding Hidden Profit in your MSP.
Below is a video of the presentation.
Adam Ross: [00:00:00] Let’s do it. So good morning and good afternoon to to everybody that’s on the call. Wanna just say massive thanks for everyone to joining us. We will look to keep this to 30 minutes as per the invite, but I think a very important topic that everyone can relate to right now, always, but even more so right now.
In terms of how can we find more profit within your MSP? Okay, so in terms of introduction and who’s going to be presenting today, my name is Adam Ross, and I’m one of the co founders of a company called Cloud Olive, and my background was actually working for Autotask, one of the, the PSA platforms, sort of the competitor to ConnectWise Manage, for the best part of a decade, and then Datto, when they took us over.
So can speak to real depth and visibility in terms of the number of [00:01:00] MSPs that we’ve certainly spoken with over the last 10, 12, 14 odd years, and really keen to share some of that experience with you today.
Matt Campion: Excellent. Hi everyone. I’m excited to be joining Adam today. My name’s Matt Campion. I’m head of products and go to market at BeeCastle.
And the best part of my 20 year career has been in CRM and account management. And, this topic today is near and dear to my heart, around helping organizations, MSPs in particular, really get the most outta your data to help you find more revenue
Adam Ross: and profit. Excellent. So in terms of the, the overview, we wanna set the context in terms of where Matt and I have really been obsessing in our own companies and speaking with tons of MSPs now over for cloud three, three and a half, four years.
And in understanding the market and the target audience, it, [00:02:00] seems to have elevated four key areas, which we would say have formed some patterns that. There’s just some consistency that where MSPs can just begin looking and at least understanding where they could potentially, pick up some missing profit really simply, really, really simply.
And then naturally that’s the problems, if you will. And then we’ll move into some tools, set examples of how you can actually go about solving that into your own business. So. We, we do want to keep this interactive. So there’s a chat box within, Zoom and just feel free to pop any questions that you have as we go.
And we’ll, if it makes sense and we can weave it in, we’ll certainly do so at the time. If not, then if there’s time at the end, then we would love to have some Q and A and just, work through any specifics that people may have.
Matt Campion: All right. Okay. Let’s, let’s get started. Adam, do you mind just, [00:03:00] you know, at a high level, you know, just giving us an overview of, you know, how cloud olive, you know, helps address, you know, this big challenge and the big value out of, you know, finding more revenue and profit.
There’s a lot on this page. Help us understand it.
Adam Ross: This is a, this is a subset of the vendors that, we’ve now got experience with when it comes to helping MSPs on build them. Okay. So there’s lots of logos up there. There’s over 140 actually. vendors and distributors from all over the globe.
Now that we’ve got some form of experience with, and the, the, the key part for us is if we can help centralize and bring one view where the MSP can understand every single vendor that they do resell and line that up and offend effectively. Create a mapping between every, every service you’re getting charged for to every service inside of your audit task or [00:04:00] connect wise.
And just give you a very simple view that you can go. Are we under billing? Are we over billing and have a bit of software that sits in the middle, learns the way that you operate, learns the way you bill your customers and just give you peace of mind. Okay. and likewise for yourself, Matt, we’ve, it’s really cool to be able to share this stage with you, actually, because we’ve, over the past 6 to 12 months, we’ve certainly heard a lot of either our partners or MSPs that we’re speaking with begin to rave about BeeCastle and the visibility that it’s providing them that they just never, ever had access to.
why don’t you just give a bird’s eye view of what you’re solving?
Matt Campion: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Adam. look, BeeCastle is a data analytics platform specifically for account management. so if we just go on to the next slide there, we enable what we call the account management value cycle. You know, often for MSPs, sales can be a little bit [00:05:00] of a dirty word.
However, what we do see is when we provide more data in context in the, the, the concept of creating value. We really do that in three ways, relationships, so we start on the left hand side here at Relationship Keeper, we help our customers better understand their relationships through data integration with M365.
They then identify problems, challenges, and needs, and that can then arise through what we call white space. And we’ll take a look at that a little bit later. And then once they identify that white space, they have opportunities, which turn into revenue. Okay. And they’re able to manage that revenue. We’ve got opportunity assist, which moves that all the way through.
And again, the importance of the data, they’re missing, they’re finding new opportunities through white space. You know, they are finding new opportunities that used to be old, [00:06:00] but they, you know, they got lost because the, the, the date field is, you know, the age of the opportunity is too old. So just sort of coming back to today’s theme, there are so many sort of nuggets once we, you know, pull that data together much, you know, similar to cloud olive.
We do have some benchmarking on the side, which I can chat about at the end. but as we move through Opportunity Assist, it all ends up at Relationships, Revenue, and the last one, Profitability. So we provide visibility of the profitability of accounts and products so they can see trends and really start to use that data to turn those insights into actions.
Okay, so just leading on from, you know, this theme of You know, data insights turning into, actions, you know, be it in cloud olive in finding, you know, under billing or over billing, in on the big castle [00:07:00] site where we really see the importance of, you know, data hygiene and visibility. And again, this is sort of first of the couple of topics that we’ll cover in this is in this talk this morning, where we see in PSAs predominantly is in the product catalog and it starts right at the start. If you will, that is sort of like the start of the, the process in many cases, and when, when customers and MSPs don’t set their products. Categories up in a way that they want to see down the track in terms of the profitability or the revenue trends, if it’s done sort of a haphazard or ad hoc type of type of way, there’s a lot of cascading effects.
So Adam, for us, the data hygiene importance for BCASL, we see a lot of benefits when customers really start to think through, be it the categories of the agreement types or the way that they’re groping their product additions, [00:08:00] together. How about you on the, on the billing side of things?
Adam Ross: Yeah, sure.
So, having worked at auditors and seen hundreds and probably a thousand different implementations of that of that system and then three plus years of obsessing on this edge case of MSP on billing. The thing that we sort of tripped over almost by mistake, probably 18 months ago was one of the big challenges or reasons why it’s such a difficult task to have clean data in the PSAs.
Is because MSPs will, what they will move forward with Autotask or Connectwise and they’ll get in there and they’ll start building things out. But actually a step that we really try to help with and, and it helps us as well, but really help the MSP in terms of actually having a look at what, data is available from your suppliers, what naming conventions, how they’re, how they’re actually getting, sent to your billing teams in our instance or sales teams in Matt’s, [00:09:00] And the, the closer you can align to billing, how you buy or selling, how you buy just as a, a very broad stroke simplifies absolutely everything.
And the key part for us, and we, we’ve got a, we’ve got a, a BI layer that we won’t talk too much about today, but if you Google freemium and cloud, all of you can get started on it straight away. But the whole concept behind that is, and what we noticed. It reads all your recurring billing items out of what a task or connect wise and displays them in Excel like format.
And you can then add filters and search across anything and gives you a margin and everything. It’s awesome. And we, we deliver that as free for free. And what we learned and what we see time and time again, is if we look at the naming conventions of Services are the most important thing. So products in, in connect wise language or services in auditors, the naming conventions on them, when we just look at them for a split second, we’ve got a really, really good handle of what [00:10:00] type of set up your PSA has actually gone through.
next important would be the contract naming conventions or agreements, naming conventions. And then lastly, but just as important is the, the, the naming conventions of your companies, your customers between all the various different vendors that you’re buying from. And. The more alignment, really the simply you can make things, the easier reporting will be, the easier it will be for new staff to come in and just pick things up versus needing sort of one person who’s got it all stored in their head.
You can just transfer that knowledge a lot easier. and the, it makes everything a lot more scalable. so data hygiene really starts from naming convention and just thinking about it with some form of logic will go a really, really long way.
Matt Campion: And, and Adam, just sort of leading that a little bit, how would you, how does that influence and, positively impacts revenue [00:11:00] leakage or trying to stop revenue leakage?
So how do you, how do you see that sort of continuation there?
Adam Ross: I think it plays a really big part into why it’s complex, why it takes a long time for MSPs to do this task on a monthly basis, like when you’ve got 100 line items coming in from a supplier, just to keep it round. If you’re doing things manually, like you’re trying to line up, hey, it’s 10 units here, 10 units there.
Five of those lines won’t appear in your PSA. Like we would bet money on that statistic. Now, the other piece is that it takes such a long time and you’ve often got one person could be the owner. It could be a couple of people if it’s at the say 15, 20 staff, MSP. like it’s a big cost going into just making sure that you’re on billing, whatever you’re getting charged for.
and if you can give a. like the, the challenge is actually trying to find 14% of those line items is what changes on a monthly basis. So 86% doesn’t change, but [00:12:00] all of that effort, time, and almost hatred for this part of the business lives within finding a very small subset of the changes and the simply you can make it, Hey, it’s a blue service.
It goes to the blue service. Awesome. You can really dip in and place any person within the business and I don’t need a PhD to try and align things. I think it has a really material difference in scalability. Simplify, don’t automate madness. Simplify before you scale.
Matt Campion: Yeah, definitely. It’s funny, you know, just to add to one of your anecdotes there, we had a customer find about 42, 000 worth.
of invoices that wasn’t billed, through our profitability, again, sort of coming back to this, you know, concept of visibility here. So, yeah, it’s really, I mean, there’s some material benefits for sure of the visibility.
Adam Ross: But I’m sure everybody has a story or two, everybody does where they miss build, overbuild, not build.
[00:13:00] and especially when there’s a cost already being, borne by the, the MSP, like Microsoft are never going to forget to bill you. That’s a given. Vendors don’t forget to bill you, they sometimes bill you twice. that it’s a, it’s a, it’s a cost that’s already been borne. So every piece that you can capture now.
You can really see it as, as truly impacting the bottom line and super important as, as, as important as ever.
Matt Campion: Yeah, definitely.
Adam Ross: I’ll keep leading on here, Matt. So the revenue leakage piece that, funny story when we first started cloud olive, our very first client company called it partners out of New Zealand gave us, gave us a shot. And, We, at the time we didn’t actually have software. We didn’t have a product. So we, we, we, we presented an exception report.
So we ran a report out of the Rorida task and we took it was so far as a vendor and we merged them together. And we then in Google docs, even [00:14:00] we presented this information back and the client was like, this is incredibly overwhelming. The amount of data you’ve given us here. And I was just like, Oh, What do you want to see?
And they went, I want to see where we’re under billing. And that was it. That was the key driver of the, the first client, first client interaction when we were, like building this in the very, very early stages, which understood, which makes sense why it per vendor, there’s five areas where an MSP runs the risk of misbilling their customers, would happy to learn if there’s more, but what we’ve learned is there’s five areas and it’s really important per vendor to have a.
A way to verify it as quickly as possible, where you are at risk of lots of questions likely coming back from your customers, which is what we really want to try and I want to get, get away from, the, the revenue leakage. Like I said, when you, when you reselling services, you have borne that cost already.
Okay. That [00:15:00] money is going to leave your bank account. It’s so crucial to make sure that what you are getting billed for is going out the door in a profitable manner. And, and depending on the spectrum of. Like how complex you feel this is, is really like initial step, just line up numbers, make sure it’s gone through the door seconds that would be making sure that you’re making the margin per line item that you’re, that you’re expecting.
And this is where we’ve spent an awful lot of time working with clients to work out what those five key areas are. and now CloudOv just learns the way that you bill your customers and all the edge cases that you may have where you’ve got a split billing or group billing, you name it, things should follow certain patterns that are in a person’s head.
key just to bake that in and then just let the system do its thing and tell you where you need to spend your time and locating that 14% that’s moved. So it really sounds
Matt Campion: like the data is. You know, that the data hygiene one is flowing through [00:16:00] and then two within your platform, it is, you know, learning and, and, and almost adapting, if you will, to continual improvement of, of the, yeah, accuracy.
Adam Ross: Totally. Yeah. Like at the end of the day, there’s a, the start of the cycle was a rep that sold something and they got the deal over the line by doing something. And it’s never, it’s never uniform. You can coach, you can train, you can, but there’s always these edge cases or the customer has changed as well.
The customer is then acquired someone or now there’s a single tenant and there’s. I don’t know, multiple companies inside of Autotask or Connectwise that want to get billed and you just want to make everyone please everyone. So you just go, yeah, cool. We’ll do that and just figure it, we’ll figure it out in the background.
They’re the edge cases that we’ve learned now that, the system just knows how to, it just remembers these, like anything outside of a norm. So the team just puts data in each month and it just tells you where they need to spend their [00:17:00] time. Um. Yeah, really, really key part is, if you’re doing things manually, five, five out of 100 lines will not be getting on build in your MSP for a number of reasons.
Oftentimes. admin has done their job in terms of switching something off when a client’s canceled, but it hasn’t been switched off in the vendor portal. We had a domain, a new client come on and saw a domain that they hadn’t on build for five years. and you’re not going to be able to pick up the phone and ask for that money, that revenue back.
So it’s truly just leaked out, out the bottom, you know? Yeah. Um. And then drilling down into it even, even further, underbilling overbilling, of course, but every single line item from a supplier, just working out whether or not it’s hitting the. Margin expectations that you want it to hit. And if it’s not a good example is NCE Microsoft.
That is the new built commerce experience with the [00:18:00] price increases and the challenges around renewing and all the rest of it. your team are having to manage that at the moment. And yeah, we’ve just spent a lot of time obsessing around this and seeing patterns. So just build a single view that can try and extract that hard to find information and just empower the user to spend their time wisely.
So the next one I’m super keen on because we, working at, Autotask and then Datto. So there was a private equity firm that actually picked us up called Vista Equity Partners. Amazing, amazing operation, but their whole thing is generating value with the software companies that they acquire and then, like build real, real meaningful enterprise value.
And one of the first things that they would always do in their standard operating procedures was probably 70 or 80 at the time. With something called CapDB client and prospect database. Okay, and it would be how can we help [00:19:00] make the software companies we’re acquiring more efficient by ranking the customers that they have, identifying where there’s white space opportunities, where there’s other products that could potentially be bolted in.
And this year, one of the most successful, software investors ever. So when, when, when I started to learn about what BeeCastle were doing, I was amazed because I just know that every, every, every company that I’ve certainly worked with would have benefited massively from being able to have a single place where you can truly grade.
Understand and have true visibility into your customers, but I’ll check it over to you to talk through this. Yeah,
Matt Campion: no, Adam, you, you know, the headline is exactly right. So, you know, increasing in MSPs, actual value of the organization is an, it’s an absolute outcome of white space. where you find more opportunities and, and one thing you spoke about there was like the tiering.
So BeeCastle [00:20:00] automatically tiers, which you can see on the second column there, based on agreement review. So you can start to really segment. the type of customers that you want to go after, but if we stay at a high level for a second, white space is a super powerful feature, which allows you to, as you can see here to look at the, the, what the opportunities that you have not sold.
So that is every single square where there is not a number. The color code is a really simple visual, which our customers love, which shows the level of recommendation, the darker, the green. That is a higher recommendation that that is a better fit of a customer of an opportunity. The blue represents an active contract for that customer.
So if I look here for a second, if I look just above the Create Opportunity button, I can see that Future Message Pro with M365, that’s a slightly darker green than two cells above [00:21:00] that. and as a user, I can go in here, I can quickly make sense of a lot of data. And I can find opportunities, real opportunities, data driven opportunities, where I can create, and add to the pipeline.
And, and we see a lot of results, you know, customers are using this week on week, finding thousands of dollars of new opportunities.
Adam Ross: quick question, what do you find when you first plug this in? What, what are, what sort of comes to life for you, new, new partners that see this data for the first time?
Matt Campion: Yeah, look, it’s just, it’s more, it’s, it’s more, Oh, it’s what they didn’t know. They didn’t know. Sometimes it’s anecdotes of like, Oh, I thought that I thought they had that. So the fit that agreement might’ve dropped off, they might’ve switched to a different, might’ve switched to a different product or a different category.
So the old adage data doesn’t lie. they, you know, they really see some surprises. and I think [00:22:00] that the other thing that is really helpful is the level of recommendations. So they’re able to, you know, make use of this, you know, AI that we’ve got here, of this recommendation engine, which then provides the opportunity.
And Adam, you know, if you don’t mind just going to the next slide. you know, we hang our hat on, Insights to Action for BeeCastle. So we are data analytics, absolutely. But everything we do, we tie it to an outcome and a measurable outcome. So from hitting that Create Opportunity button, I’m then just presented with, this screen here, which you then quickly create an opportunity, goes back into your PSA, and we integrate with ConnectWise.
so it goes back and you’re adding it, to your pipeline. And then lastly, this is a feature here within open opportunities. and you can manage that pipeline all the way to close, right throughout, B castle. again, I think this really comes back to the idea of moving [00:23:00] things through a pipeline, but that doesn’t come.
Without anything, right? That comes through the data, the visibility, and really sort of starting with that end in mind of letting the data, you know, move you in the direction that you want to go. Adam, that sort of brings us along to, I think, probably the top, I’m going to get my French wrong, the topic du jour or the, you know, the, the, one of the big questions and, you know, Perhaps the wave, that is not going anywhere, which is only going forward, but, you know, everyone, the last topic we wanted to talk about here before we sort of move into the last couple of, things to chat about is this potential of the automation and an AI.
from a B castle perspective, the screen that you just saw the, the, the color shading of recommendations, that is one level of sort of AI that we have within, within our platform. Another one as well is that we’re looking at what we already do, we [00:24:00] make recommendations about. Who you’ve met with, but also who you haven’t met with.
And we use the data, the learning of that, of your own data set of engagement to make recommendations around who you should engage with relationships to move things forward. But the potential is, you know, You know, unlimited, right? There are a number of further use cases that we’re looking at as well. so definitely,
Adam Ross: I think that’s so important as well.
If you can have a, like get the data, right. Have that flow through, have the system present opportunities and just really direct the user where they should be speaking to clients and how they should be engaging with them. But the, the. The sheer, efficiency gains as well that can come from like, we, we don’t have any true AI in our platform.
as of today, where we’ve been focusing our time is really providing that automation, like within the, within cloud olive, of course, but from a personal perspective, like [00:25:00] using chat GPT, barred occasionally, like every week there’ll be something that for me, I’m trying to, like, it’s a wave that’s going to be here forever.
And it’s going to appear more and more. Day to day, just in either the applications we’re using and soon, like you won’t even be able to recognize what isn’t it. It’s not AI fast forward, sort of, I don’t know, 12, 18, 24 months. It’s only going to, going to accelerate. So I think getting comfortable with it and using it where applicable and security obviously is a very important thing with, for everyone, but especially with, with MSPs, but within the company, I got an eye on it for sure.
But yeah, from a personal perspective, like really interested to see that you’re using it in, in the product, your customers are benefiting from it, but yeah, where it’s going to go to next. Yeah,
Matt Campion: it’s going to be, it’s going to be fascinating. And I think the, you know, the MSPs know, I mean, I [00:26:00] run IT companies, they know the data, but I think this next step is going to be about the organizations that know their data so well.
And. It’s about the application, right? And the use case, I think many of us, obviously, there’s considerations and risks and ethical and, you know, biases and these type of things, but once we get past all those hurdles, I think the ones that are going to be the real winners, optimizing it for use cases, and leveraging all of the data that they, that they have in really smart ways.
yeah, it’s going to be a really, really interesting time ahead. There’s no doubts about it.
Adam Ross: Yeah. Yeah. I think the individual use cases that are optimized perfectly, it’s just focusing in on a niche that we’ve seen as every possible wave since the dawn of time, that’s, that’s eventually where it goes and grows fast and then comes out the other side of it and then consolidates and goes again.
Matt Campion: Adam, we’ve just had a question. happy to, [00:27:00] happy to take that now or I’ll take that at the end. Yeah, go for it. I think the question was around what are the best practices on using white space. Look, what we’ve seen is that typically white space is used in either monthly account planning. Okay, so when.
when, account teams are looking at the pipeline for the month ahead. so it’s really, they work it into their workflow of looking at their meetings, tiering their customers, and they use that as a really important data source, to plan ahead for their meetings and, for their, opportunities in their pipeline.
so yeah, really, it flows into a month, monthly cycle of account planning. Thanks for the question.
Adam Ross: Yeah, cool. I’ve actually had a question come through as well around. I just chucked it on there because that’s a value to everyone. But, question was what’s the trickiest vendor? Microsoft without a shadow of a [00:28:00] doubt.
80% of our clients use cloud olive to reconcile and make sure that what they’re getting billed. From their distributor, we’ve got over 20 different distributors. They all think about billing in a completely different manner. It’s like a different language that they’ve all been brought up on. but Microsoft, without a shadow of a doubt, if you’re billing annually and buying annually, another level of complexity as well.
if you’ve tried to buy annually and sell in monthly and sort of trick the system, even more complexity. but it always, always, always distills down to the love it or hate it. You have to take your distributor, your Microsoft vendor as the source of truth and make sure that every single line item, every single unit is profitably going out the door.
Period. That’s like, that’s a non negotiable with the data set. And then you can go back and work out, Hey, where we, [00:29:00] did we downgrade that at the right seven day window? What do we need to track accordingly, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, good question. Microsoft without a shadow of a doubt is just got harder and harder and harder.
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the, the question there.
Matt Campion: Adam, do you mind just going back one slide? I think it’s one slide. and, and I think we’re just sort of coming up to time and then we’ll start to take some more question. I think there’s another question that’s come up, which is great, but we might just sort of paraphrase some of this everyone if some of the takeaways for today.
So, look, you know, obviously there’s some real complements between, both our platforms here. but I think more importantly for the audience today. How can you get value? How can you find hidden revenue and find hidden profit? you know, keeping it really simple. It’s like, you know, sell it right.
You know, using your data in a really smart way. and results that we’ve seen, is, you know, one of our customers, 152% more [00:30:00] meetings. you know, a lot of our customers find thousands of dollars in new opportunities. and then 9%, you know, revenue, uplifting in 60 days as well. That’s another. example from one of our customers.
How about you, Adam, on your side? Yeah,
Adam Ross: the key one, small, medium or large MSP, like whatever time you’re spending right now, you’ll spend one eighth of that. It’s been weirdly consistent this whole time. but have it bulletproof accurate and, it just, just take peace of mind month on month. You know that you you you on billing everything you get in charge the best you the best.
the best case study for us was an MSP. It was actually our very first partner IP partners who, they, they did really, really well in covert and when, Like doubled their end point size and we’re talking in thousands, right? They doubled that. They had two people in admin, they lost someone in admin and they never had to employ another person in that role and could then scale throughout that, yeah, rapid growth [00:31:00] that they had.
And when I heard that, I was just like, this is so cool hearing those types of, stories. just the right time that Cloud Olive came along and solved a really, really key problem that they were, Yeah, facing or really about to face when they lost that admin person, right? So one, well, I guess one more question.
We were one minute over and want to be respectful. There’s a question here. around, like if I, one of the services comes up for renewal, would white space be useful to actually track something along that nature?
Matt Campion: Yeah, it, so, Yeah. sorry. I’m just pulling up on this screen as well. the answer is yes, it would be.
So in the white space you will see when it is active, but you also could use it in conjunction with another feature called contract tracker in in B castle which shows the expiry date. And how far ahead of a contract, it’s coming up to expire. So you can see time [00:32:00] out, and you can get a good lead lead time, leading into that.
So, yeah, the, the answer is
Adam Ross: yes. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for the question there. Yeah. So we’re a couple of minutes over, we will share the. Recording the webinar with everyone afterwards. I mean, I think if you came in via LinkedIn, it might be worthwhile emailing, either myself at Adam at cloudolive. com or Matt your email.
Matt Campion: Yeah. So you can, jump on to, BeeCastle. com. you don’t have to integrate. You could, access the free benchmarking, there. or you could, make use of profit track, as well. and you can get me at Matt at BeeCastle. com.
Adam Ross: last question, actually good one. What happens if the vendor cannot give you a breakdown by customer apart from changing vendors?
Can we reconcile on the top level? two things we’ve got over [00:33:00] 140 different vendors that I don’t know, 50 of them might’ve started with that specific challenge, RMM enable, a lot of the RMMs actually. There’s often ways that there is an accessible report that does provide the detail that we’re after.
but if you, if that is for some reason not available at all, and it probably a vendor that shouldn’t be in the MSP space for starters, but if that is not available, then what I would recommend is using even the free tool, freemium and cloud olive, Google those things. that that’s the easiest way where you can segment and go show me service a, and we’ll just pull up, show you how many units, what you’re selling them for.
and it will almost do a reverse Reconciliation from a top down. So that’s another solution to it, but we, I’d suggest that we can probably find the right data.
Excellent. All right, everyone. Thanks so much for your time, Matt. Awesome. Thanks
Matt Campion: Adam. Thanks
Adam Ross: everyone. And speak to everyone soon. Thanks for your time. Thank
Matt Campion: you.[00:34:00]